30 Minutes of Therapy - Episode 18 - Becoming Better at Delegating Tasks

Video Transcription:

Noah Levine:

Hello, and welcome back to 30 Minutes of Therapy. It's been a while, but we're excited to be back. I'm Noah Levine, editorial director for Dental Products Report, and, as always, we're joined by Mike Massotto, who is the CEO and founder of Staff Driven Dental and Dental Coaching on Demand. And he's here to help us deal with all the different issues, challenges and problems that might arise while running your dental practices. Mike, welcome back to the program. I hope all is good with you.

Mike Massotto:

Yes, I returned for my own therapy. No, ironically, the last well, the last show, people have noticed that before we did the show, I was like, No, I'm not 100%. I'm not feeling too great, but I'll power through. That was on August second, and I had COVID. So, I did a show with COVID. It became that I was I was down for the count for several weeks. And now back at it, but I don't recommend that, by the way, if anybody who's thinking about getting COVID try to avoid it if you can. You know, but thankfully I, you know, I’m feeling strong, I got my immunity, and I said, to all of you out there for doing the best, whatever works for you, and to take care of yourselves. And Noah, I know you were talking about a disaster. Business disasters never happened anywhere else only in dental practices, right? What was it? You were telling me? Right?

NL:

Yep. Well, today we have a topic that I'm pretty excited about. Because, you know, dental practices are often run by dentists who don't have a business background, we've discussed that a lot before, but they're also run by a dentist who tend to be people who are very hands on very particular, and therefore probably keep themselves involved in way more parts of the practice than they probably should. So, we're going to touch on the topic of the things that a dentist should not be doing in the practice, and basically, it's not if you're a 1-person show or 2-person show, yeah, you'll do more things. But if you've got a full operation, delegating is really important. Honestly, it's been a lesson I've been learning the hard way through the last year or so where I figured I need to delegate more things. And the more you do it, the better I've found, at least the better I get at it, the more comfortable I am trusting that the team members I've empowered to do tasks I pioneered how to do, they can do it just as well as I can if I teach them correctly. So, to dive in, are there any major top line things, you know, this is something no matter what the dentist should just not be bothering having this on his or her to do list?

MM:

I'm going to give you the full list of what dentists should be doing right now. So, if you're listening to this, please write this down. I've compiled a very extensive list of what dentists should be doing in the dental practice with exclusion of all else. And the first one is dentistry. And, okay, I'm being a little facetious, because are a few of the things you should be doing. But that but here's the thing, and this is what I always tell my clients: hey, there's only 1 person that can do it, you know, in the office when you do, and that's you as dentist, okay? No one else can do that job. Right? So, if you're not doing dentistry, right, it's probably to the detriment of the practice, right? If you're sitting around the office, twiddling your thumbs, not seeing patients, right, that's not a good thing. Or if you are hovering around the front desk to make sure they're doing their job properly, that's not a good thing. Because you just have a lot of time on your hands when you should be in your chairs, you know, chairside doing dentistry.

And, that's the big detrimental thing doctors don't understand, you know, that that's the main thing you should be focusing on. You know, that's what you have a team for, right? And that's why you should be, you know, training this team. So, you don't have to do every single aspect of the office because it isn't a challenging thing. You know, doctors get into dentistry, we've talked about this before, and find out after the fact it's a business, right? They find out the hardball crap, I got a business you know, I didn't know how to do all this kind of stuff besides dentistry, whatever and, and, you know, universally, you know, most dentists that I speak to they just like doing dentistry. They love doing work and taking care of patients. What they can't stand is all the crap of practice like well that they got it you know, and it's crap because they really don't have the training and know-how what to do. You know, they're not taught to be leaders and managers and executives and business people, and you know, all these fun things like bookkeepers, accountants, mediators, you know, politicians, diplomats. This is what the guys do on a daily basis on top of everything else, and this is what takes the love away from what they're doing. I think that they don't like it and being analytical and men or women in science, that it's hard for them to comprehend this because you know, they, they're taught so well on their craft, but when they don't know what they're doing when it comes to doing the management part, the business part, it's frustrating. So, they try to make it up as they go along where they feel like you know, if I get involved, but I do everything, you know, I got it covered, you know, we just operate that way, if you have to do everything all the time, it's really an indictment how your practice is running. It really is because you know, what are you paying your staff with? And why do you have your staff there, you feel they can't do the job, and they don't know what you're doing? And you think you can do better than them? You know, which is not, which is not the case, really. Most of the people you hire have a specific skill set, usually better than us, like, for instance, you know, Doc, tell me you could do hygiene, you know, I know you can do it. But mostly you have a hygienist because A.) Anybody can do it better than you and B.) Because it’s not productive when you have to schedule for hygiene, right? So, I know you can do it, right? Can you answer the phones, your front desk? And you can do that? Is it the best way of doing your practice? No, it's not. Right. So, this is the first area right there. So, knowing that dentistry should be your main ultimate focus and get there, you have a day where all you can do is dentistry, and not worry about everything else.

NL:

Still many times the dentist is essentially the CEO at the practice. They're the person who is in charge so [they’re] the person often signing the checks. They're the person who makes the final decisions, hirings, firings, what is going to be bought for the practice. Outside the operatory might not be a priority, but how involved--let's start at the front desk operations. You've got your office manager, or your front desk receptionist who handles some scheduling recall type stuff, obviously, checking in patients, checking out patients. Is there anything that a dentist should be doing up in that space at all during the day? Or you know, is that just kind of set it forget it and trust you've hired well?

MM:

Yeah, I always--didn't we talk about the invisible dog fence collar, you know, we thought that might come up on your list, you got me the list of prior episodes we talked about. But it's a big No No, to basically go wander into the space especially the front desk [because it] is a nerve center of your practice. And really, a lot of doctors who listen to this need to spend more time starting with that and you build out from there, you might think it's hygiene or assisting or other some other spot in your practice. But man, it starts and ends at the front desk, and that can make or break you every single day. If your front desk is weak, and you feel you have to be up there, because of what they're saying, and how they're saying it and what they're doing, and how what they're doing is not good, because it's in your mind, it's not working. First of all, that's in your head. That's what you need to get out and set expectations and set up training. When you put a person in their job in a job description, first of all, as you train these people on, then you need a certain kind of personality. I've talked about having the right people in the right places doing the right things, you know, that position, you cannot skimp on. A ton of money is made or lost at that front desk every day, and someone being up there. When you put a person on a job and you have to hover over them, it’s very invalidating. That person [will] feel like “Well, why am I even here?”

Like if you were in your room, your operatory doing treatment, a crown prep, let's say and all of the sudden the front desk decided to wander in and stand over you and make commentary and interject themselves into what you were doing, you'd be like, “What the hell are you doing here?” Because I know this better than you why are you here?

Well, that’s kind of how the front desk person should feel when you're doing the hover management thing. It doesn't really work, and it's also admitting that we don't really have control over the practice. The way to have control is training, and doing proper staffing, and [to] not have to worry and you can sit, you know, you can let go of some of this control, because doctors really have to control every single thing in the sphere of influence every day. That's very stressful. If you're if you're looking into someone's mouth, and all you hear is everything in the background, because your attention is out there behind you with whatever is going on around you, you need to be in that zone treating people. You can't worry about what's going on around you every second of every day. So that that front desk area, it usually is because we don’t, we take that for granted. We don't put enough attention in there in terms of who we're hiring, and who and how they're trained. And what do we have enough people out there too, and whatever that we feel if we ask the doctor to interject ourselves, the part that I don't recommend it is not a way of practice.

I don't think anybody listening to this would prefer doing that. “No I love my day when I have to continually leave my room and come up to the front desk and worry about what's going on there. We spend time out there.” I don't think they'd rather not; you know, you'd rather be doing what you love to do.

So, this starts with how you go about staffing each position, training for each position, but I wouldn't--I'm not a big believer in that. Yes, you made a point about CEO, Noah. Obviously. I would think that certainly we were joking before about all my passwords change and just scrambling to figure out your passwords to get off today where well that'd be nice to know that before the last meeting and stuff like that, but again, that's where having a CEO, you know, in charge and giving out orders to everybody and make sure they understand; “Hey, I need to know these things and whatever you want.” The doctors also on the production line. It's a strange thing. Like, for instance, when you go to work, you're not the one doing like putting magazines together or doing the content online to make sure it's all laid out properly. If you had to do that, like with Bill Gates, he didn't worry about computer assembly, he was at the top of the organizational board and everything on it. But this industry is strange in that the dentist is not only the CEO, and owner, right? He's the production. So, when we ring the bell and productions part, he goes down in here in the organization, right. He's working inside the operations now. So, who is taking over? Well, that's where the manager moves to that role, where they're basically calling the shots. They're quarterbacking today. So you don't have to worry and do everything else. At least that's optimally how it should be. I'm not saying it's going on right now. And most people listening to this right now, and I'll get to that point. But that's optimally what you want to get into.

NL:

Should the doctor be maybe checking things at the beginning of the day, and then the end of the day, whether it's a dashboard they've set up in their software, or some standard reporting that they want to keep track of? Is that a good idea?

MM:

Yeah, checks and balances are a good thing. Man. You know, there's no doubt because you hear more and more, I know that the fear doctors have is, if they're not aware of everything, and especially when it comes to money. I don't recommend you get disconnected. And I still don't hear this as you're disconnected from what's going on with your money. Like, where's the insurance going and where that's going, and how much money is being deposit or how much cash is being collected at the front desk, you need to be aware of what's going on with that note, no doubt about that whatsoever. Having a series of checks and balances. That's one reason I always started with a morning huddle. We did a show on that and go back and listen to him, but that's a that's a check thing for the day to make sure that things go the way you want them go, then at the end of the day, you should be getting a look at the day sheet, you should be sitting down and taking it out [so] you can have a checklist looking at what you're looking at right now. Sure, but that that sheet will take hours upon hours to do that. So, there should be monitors, there should be checks and balances that you go over.

And when you really get a powerhouse you can trust and trust is the key factor. Right? You don't trust him immediately. But you build trust over time. You have to let go. At some point you got to trust this person. She's been doing this, she's demonstrated to me and you've done your background check maybe in the beginning and everything else you do you trust this person, you have to allow her to do to do her thing. It can you get screwed over. Yes, anything's possible. We can't live life in no trust. It's not a great life in practice, when you don't trust anybody, you know, when you don't trust your staff into their job, or their trusted or, although they're all after me. If you live in that kind of life, you got the wrong kind of staff, first of all, right? And if you had a great kind of staff, and he's still operating that you listen to the one I sent on my therapy couch because he can't operate like that every day in no trust. Right? You know, and that's the starting point.

NL:

Moving back from the front desk, you touched on that the hygiene room is co that's not where the doctor should be spending much time. But is there ever any time again that you know, you need to be involved checking on things in hygiene? Or is that something where you're hiring your own set of medical professionals to do what they've been trained to do? You almost don't need to be in there other than those checks at the end of the appointments.

MM:

What are the checks the important thing, right, that the need is that short 2-minute time in the law in the room? And there's a whole way that what I teach that should be but other than that, no, unless you're doing your own hygiene, which again, I'm not recommending, but some people have don't have the means at this point. And they have by necessity or have taken on that role. But ultimately having a strong hygiene department, which is the internal sales, divinity of your dental practice, if you're a general practitioner, is important. And it's not productive to hygiene, your schedule. Yeah, so there's really no reason to be in especially hygiene. I mean, these people have other licensed clinicians, you know, these people are doing this treatment, if you have to be in there for clinical reasons to do something. That's a major problem, major problem, right? There's really no reason I guess, but look, if you're doing sales and hygiene, now, sometimes hygiene is co-diagnose, right and they present, your work is going to be done based on your standard of care. And they have put pictures up on there and you're going to come in, you're going to do a presentation Well, yes, that's the time you're gonna spend a little more time in hygiene on the sales, but that's you, but then you're helping close a case or confirm treatment recommendations there, right? Because they can't make it in a vacuum by themselves legally. So, you have to go in there and do a sales presentation. That's the time to be in there that you're needed to do basically. Yes, it was your blessing. So yep, this is basically what I think, you know, whatever. That's the fun to be in it. But other than that, I guess on a clinical level, there's really no reason for doctors to be involved in it. There's not really any official profit.

NL:

Now moving to a practice that's large enough and well-staffed enough that they actually have a treatment coordinator on staff someone who works with patients and you know, usually is dealing with the financial side of setting up bigger treatment plans and things like that, does the doctor need to be involved in that the whole time? Can the doctor kind of present what the clinical thing is and then turn it over to their treatment coordinator to actually nail down scheduling payments and all of those critical but somewhat ancillary details?

MM:

You get a whole show on treatment coordinators? That's another. For sure, for sure. But yeah, I mean, some doctors like to get involved in the money aspect of the whole thing. There's, I have a couple of my program. And they're powerhouse sellers. And they love doing they take it from start to finish. And then they close 15 20,000 cases left and right. Right. But for the most part, dentists are not salespeople, I recommend separating it out. Because you don't want to get involved with the money and take on that role as well as your to do the clinician and not the not the salesperson state separate from the need to get divided. But yes, you have to find a strong salesperson who you can hand it off to. Right, and they do their thing. So yeah, I feel the part that doctors involved with is the clinical presentation. And, and a way that you add some control in yours, you know what's going on and make sure it goes right, is Yeah, I always recommend doing this presentation with a treatment coordinator initially in front of them in front of the patient. So that when you're making that for them they're in on the whole process, so there's no treatment coordinator leaves, the room goes in, it goes into her room, touch the door, whatever emerges victorious and 30 minutes, the winner. It shouldn't be that way. It should be sold before they get in there.

But part of it is like at the doctor how many times is the treatment coordinator running back and forth to the doctor asking questions. What did you tell her? What did you say? This should all be understood. When the patient challenges you, as you know, and it will happen, you can go well, you know, when the doctor said, you know, you're gonna have the doctors presenting this to you when we were taught. And they know so they don't have you don't have to get the doctor involved again and get pulled into a room. When is that the I'm a sales pitch on the sales closer. That sale should be almost done when they sit with it just to be working out the money, the finances at that point, they’re not convinced by the time they sit with that treatment coordinator, we missed something earlier in our presentation. Right? That's right.

So that's why doctors are constantly getting pulled into these rooms, and getting involved in trying to pull these cases, but I don't recommend it. Because I said before, then they're not the best sales guy to separate the money, you know, from what you do clinically. Look and they are mostly ever women, they can do it better than you. They will with the right training, and What other people can say about you is much more powerful thing than you say about yourself. They're your advocate, they don't think that they're presenting with it because they think you got 1 hand in your mouth, 1 hand in your pocket your pocket kind of thing. That's why it's good to have someone else do that. And not you get involved. And I'm not saying you can't I'm not saying that doctors aren't great at it. And you want to take that role if you're the strongest person. But trying to find trade, you've got to find a person who's who's going to be your closer so you don't have to get involved in the sales processes, because that's very time consuming. Because what do you think what's going on in that office all day long, besides treatment—sales. You hate to use that dirty word about sales. Again, it's come up many times in our episodes, yes, people are making buying decisions all the time they're in your office, right? And you don't want to be involving yourself in any buying decisions throughout the course of the day. For sure.

NL:

Now, so we've established dentist should be doing dentistry, the practice should have people who are trained and expert in the various other tasks that it takes to run the business of a dental practice. So turning this on its head, what do you do if you're the receptionist, or you're the office manager, and the dentist is constantly over your shoulder or constantly, you know, wandering out from the operatory between patients and in your business a little bit.

MM:

Yeah we’ll use the famous line that I had that I saw one office manager use when she was a very strong front desk person she didn't need any intervention and the doctor was notoriously bad at wandering back up to the front desk. She'd see him out of the corner of her eye and say “Back in your hole!” You know that kind of relationship so I wouldn't recommend that script don't say that to whoever, in front of patients especially, but that's the kind of thing is like there's a barrier there that if you have a doctor that's doing that and it's wandering in you know, first of all, you gotta make some agreements of how that's going to get asked to be discussed. If you if you are if you are at the front desk and you have a doctor coming up there is having a similar kind of thought What about me are you uncertain about what do you what are you worried about, you know, that kind of thing and have some conversation with that about that, you know, because if it's continually happening, you address it. You don’t address it in front of patients or anything as to why you here that's not a good thing to say in front of a patient at that point but sitting down and saying if you have if you have a scenario like that, when a doctor feels to wander in there.

And here's a solution for that make that doctor so busy that they have no time to be That's the issue you know you're that part of that's on you front desk person you know manager if you schedule so many holes that he feels he's you know doctors can't stand holes right you got you get so fed up of hearing the doctor about holes you know you put a cabinet schedule you know and then the doctor walks in is wiser Academy chair. It's like yeah, the cat you know needs treatment work on the cat so you know, I don't work with man, you know, I don't mind recommend working on cats can't have hairballs, the guy goes, don't put cats in the chair. Okay, but that's almost like it because you want to be smart, busy, not stupid, because you don't put anybody whatever. But you want to fill the schedule, though, because doctors can stand holes. And that's when hovering starts happening hold squads hovering, you know, involvement, there is the worst thing you can have an idle doctor, because I don't want this basically, if you think they want to be busy, right? They want to be doing something with their hands. Right? And then they start getting involved in things that they shouldn't be getting involved in to the detriment of the practice, you know, so that's the solution is this keep the doctor schedule full and busy. Right? Then, you know, she's got no time. Now, time management. Another thing that always wasn't most infuriating is when a doctor does have a full schedule, you know, of all and they still are not they're not in the rooms, they're someplace else. Okay, well, that's a control thing now. All right. And that's a major problem that you see that doctors feel they have no concept of time, you know, time man. So they just like wait, and you have a full, what are you doing here or there or in your office or whatever you need to be in the room, you know, to keep on time, so part of the job of the front desk person that is met with a manager is to keep the doctor running on time, you know, moving from room to room to room, they had no time to think about it, he or she's got no time to think about anything else other than treatment, right. And then insurers have no time to be involved in anybody else's business, except their own, you might try.

NL:

It sounds to me, like this is an area that comes down to some of the core things we've talked about in previous episodes, that if you have a good team in place, you're going to be able to run a practice very efficiently and very effectively. But if you have people who aren't able to do their jobs, then other people get pulled out of position. And essentially, you know, it's just like, you know, in a football game, if someone misses a block on the offensive line, there's someone who's free and clear to hit that quarterback. But if someone misses a block, and you come over off your block to try and pick up that person, you're leaving a hole too. So you know, it seems to me like is it really coming back to that same thing, you need a good foundation of a team, you can trust a team that skilled at what you ask them to do, and a team that's trained in the way that you want them to do their tasks.

MM:

I mean, look, I didn't mean my original company. By accident, I mean, back when I was a staff person, from a different idea of an industry and I was trained to do new patient marketing, I didn't go to school for new patient marketing. I was trained and I'm a product of consulting myself and the reason why I do consulting today is because I worked for a doctor many many years ago in my youth right maybe in my youth I said my youth the young days who basically saw diamond in the rough and invested a lot of money in me for consulting and I thought I had no idea fixed ideas in my head about consulting as being bad or whatever I just ended up I thought it was great. I thought it was a game I liked all the all the ideas up I want to implement everything and it worked right so all these years later I recommend every doctor listen to this get your staff trained first of all I said before having the right people in the right places doing the right things I mean I said it before in a future personally earlier episode noise checking scans you might say that some of this stuff bears repeating because you know what? It doesn't sink in the first time. Right? These are some of the things I talk about all the time over and over and over again. I have the same time the same clients for 15 or 20 years hearing the same thing for me oh there's Mike mentioned that you don't get why you're not doing it. Right. So that's why it starts at that because it makes your life that easy. And we don't we invest a little time in that. And we wonder why it's so stressful on me Why am I doing everybody else's job? Why do I have to do this? You know, why does it take me to take care of this kind of thing? No more even for the simplest things you're walking around shutting things down and the other night making sure all the equipment's off why all these little things that's it every anybody blows out of their stroke at six o'clock, right and your little 789 10 o'clock at night, you know doing reports, charts, things like that things you should have been doing during the day that you didn't do because you were doing something else during there but so it starts and ends with your team. But how much time do we really put in team and invest in doing that? You know, you kind of and I still want office the way see how much you pay him is one of the front desks we just sitting there, you know, who barely has no communication skills, and no dental background. Oh, she was a steal only pair $14 an hour. I say well, that's great. 14 bucks an hour and she's costing you hundreds, maybe 1000s of dollars an hour sitting there and you're saving money that way. If you're not that's not an error you want to skimp on.

You get what just like anything else in life, you get what you pay for. Now, I'm not saying just throw money to standard English even worth it, okay, but there's ways to find out that these people are worth it and they can prove their worth and their value. So For a few bucks an hour, if you if it's going to give you freedom and sanity and less and less stress and save your mental health, physical health over time, why not do it, but again, because doctors don't have to hire this is there's an art and science to hiring, attracting good people, even when these times when it's so difficult, you know, to find people, right, but it's gonna get better. And it is starting to shift. But it's been very hard. Right now more than ever to staff offices, right to do that, but but it starts and ends with staffing. And because you can't do this without a team, right. And if you want to, if you want to be a solo person doing it all yourself single handily, great do that. Make 200,000 in production produce produce 20,000 a year in a one room office, and that's what you're going to get. But if you want to really grow and expand and have a thriving booming practice, you know, make more revenue want to make, right you have to have a team in place, and you got to put time and attention and energy into them. And if you don't know what, what am I gonna teach you, right here, you don't make this stuff up yourself. If I told him, if I told you that lesson today and your staff meeting, you're going to take everybody into the operatory and start showing them how to do a one service composite. You could teach him that, right? You could probably teach him the mechanics of how to do that, because you've done it 1000s upon 1000s and 1000s of times your expert with it and making you become marginally not legally but they can become marginally proficient in doing one service composites, right. Like, for example, I use my wife is an example. He was an ortho for 30, almost 30 years, she started before she can work for come up working for me, right? She started when she was 15 years old in the practice. And she started with an old time orthodontist who basically from day one, she knew nothing. She was an assistant, he became certified, he became registered. And in the interim, he taught her how to do orthodox. Okay, so just just so you just knew it. That was the fourth the point where 30 years later when she finally left there and arm was falling off from repetitive motion injury, or whatever, she could put braces on patients better than anywhere else coming out of dental school, you know, which wasn't wasn't honest, was crazy, right? $100 an hour, she's getting paid 30.

So what's not working in this situation is one and whatever. But she could master that craft before that because she was mentor, and she was trained. And she was an asset to that practice. Because you know what, when she moved into a management position, and she was doing sales, right, she's the coach, she was in a big facility, she used to close 678 starts a day paid in full. And she was talking to these moms. And she also had all their orthodontics done by the dentist, and she'd smile and say I want your smile. But she could speak clinically intelligently about everything as if she was a doctor, because she knew orthodontics clinically, inside now, so you could teach people that but so you if you took the time, you can teach people that, right. But the other slip by that point, it is more office managers training school is because it doesn't exist. There's no school students out there other than people like me, I'll just say only me, there's no other consultant and you can't teach this kind of stuff, right? You have to, you have to go back to school and say, like, I don't know what I want to teach, I know it needs to get better here. And I need to run this place. But here we go, I'm gonna invest some time and money in bringing an expert and expert people in to train the hell out of my people and give me the systems and power and the How to to do this. Rather than let me just I heard a school, it's supposed to be this way, I read something somewhere that may be possibly to say you should possibly, you know, answer the phones or junior patients, they think you're not going to be satisfied. And again, you're going to left feeling that you have to do it yourself. And again, you're still inventing ways of doing it. Because again, this is not your area of expertise, not by any stretch of the imagination. So worth the investment, for sure.

NL:

But I think, you know, as always, we've flown through a 30-minute session that seemed like it went by in a blink. And while I'm sure there's plenty more. Yeah, we probably fit in an hour's worth of information than these half hour sessions

MM:

Easy. We're recording this right now. But when they listen to it, they can play it back on slow play and get a word, right.

NL:

Right. But for all those of you out there watching, if you have questions, problems in your practice, send them into us my email and Mike's email are both on the screen for you to see. If you'd like to try coaching on demand, you can go visit dental coaching on demand comm there's a code down on the screen as well that you can use to try it out. Mike, we're glad to have you back. Glad that you're healthy again, and looking forward to talking about some more topics with you. So please, if you want to have a question answered, let us know. But we've got a long list of other topics to cover. So we'll be back soon with another edition of 30 minutes of therapy.

MM:

Yeah, so thanks for joining us and in case you want to be on the show, but you've heard about that, you know we can put our virtual couch. It is a dentist that it wants to be on our show one time, we love We love to talk to you and you can bring you can bring your problems lie down, stand up, sit down, whatever you like to do, and I'll take on whatever you got One of the shirts with me give you a lot of fun.

NL:

I think that would be great. So please be in touch. Let us know. So for Dental Products Report, I'm Noah Levine for Staff Driven Dental and Coaching on Demand. He's Mike Massotto. Thanks very much for watching.